Crane Removal Seminars/Workshops

[FJR]

I would really like find more information on a crane removal class. I have been interested in this for a long time and there is a quite a bit of experience around this board and thought maybe you guys could help steer me in the right direction. I looked through ISA's book section also, and didn't find much.

I just did a large silver maple removal not too long ago and I kept thinking to myself... why am I not doing this the smarter, safer, and more efficient way? I feel like I have a good understanding (by far not an expert) of the physics involved and where slings need to be placed. But after that I have a lot of questions... Are there multiple ways to set a sling? In which situation would you use each way? When are the proper times to double sling? Are steel chokers used also? What is the proper way to ride the ball? I have a lot of questions in my head and would love to learn more.

I would like to take a class and learn the tips and tricks along with a concrete foundation (if there is such a thing). After that I would like to be a ground man for a crane operation, and after that I would like to do it myself on removal that sways towards the simple side. I'm just trying to take the right steps to get into to crane removals and try to do it the smart and safe way.

How did all of you learn?

Thanks in advance for any help. Oh, and by the way, my name's Fred. It's about time I properly introduced myself here :)

[Stumper]

Fred. I still have not done a crane removal (Though I have rigged trees off of neigboring spars and done small picks with a material handling bucket (I'm loving that!). A few years ago I did attend a seminar with Mahk of Treebuzz teaching it. Nothing earth shattering for an experienced rigger but plenty of good tips for a neophyte. It was worthwhile.

[The Branch Doctor]

I did take a crane removal class before doing my first but since then I don't hesitate for a moment to bring in a crane. There's a lot of variables involved with crane removals but the same can be said with rigging. I am pretty selective when it comes to my crane operator though. A seasoned veteran knows his crane and knows how to keep you safe whereas a rookie mistake can cost you your life.

My .02:D

[sotc]

just seemed natural after rigging for years then watching a guy wreck one with a crane

[treesandsurf]

I would think rigging out a large tree would be more technical than crane removals, but I've never done a crane removal so can't say 8)

jp:D

[MasterBlaster]

Working with a crane can be tricky. It's not always a walk in the park.

The only training I ever had was OTJ and I had a pretty good teacher.

[xtremetrees]

Step one, ride the crane to the top and install the sling

[xtremetrees]

Step two rapell down to your first cut, these are last weeks photos.

[xtremetrees]

Finally step three , make the cut and stand really far back, dont fight the urge to run.

[xtremetrees]

In those picks the boss wanted us to notch toward the crane and sling opposite the notch.
Fred I just showed up to a shop that had a crane and starting driving it.

[FJR]

Thanks for your help so far everyone. Are there any classes available or even books? Or is my best bet going to be contacting another local company that do crane removals and try and get some on the job training?

Treesandsurf: Rigging out a large tree can be extremely difficult you are absolutley right. That's why I feel confident that I can tackle crane removal jobs once I am shown the proper techniques. There are many jobs where I would have loved to have a crane.

Potential clients are telling me when I am bidding a job, whats seems like left and right these days, that my competitors are often wanting to bring in a crane. So I just feel like its time, and I can't wait to do my first crane job.

[FJR]

Xtreme: Thanks for the info, but I think I have a understanding on that part. Is choking the only way to set a sling? What kind of slings are there? I have looked at the lift all slings in the Sherrill catalog. Does the crane provide them or do I need to provide them?

[Mr. Sir]

Sherrill sells a video about cranes. I haven't seen it, but it might be worth checking it out. I think its by Mark Chisolm.

[Mr. Sir]

Finally step three , make the cut and stand really far back, dont fight the urge to run.

If you do it right, there's no need to run anywhere. The piece just floats away like magic. I love crane jobs. It's all about physics and reading the pick.

[xtremetrees]

Yeah bro they've always provided them but you can buy pretty cheap I think. I dont like the cable ones but crane companies seem to use them more that soft slings. There are many different variation or configuration that different companies employ, from chandliering which is employ 3 or 4 cables on a single lift, to just useing one cable. If the company has a crane operator that does trees alot ask for um, novice crane operators honk the horn alot and try and avoid them. Just be sure and not cut to big a piece, start small and work your way up to bigger pieces.
Couple years ago a buddy cut a house in half with a crane, I called him and asked what happened he said,"crane operator told climber to come on down and take a bigger piece" Crane operators khow their crane usually but they dont know the weights of different species of trees, the difference in a poplar and a hickory trees weight can add up really quick ya know.
One factor to keep in mind is access and distances, buy you a tape that measures 100 or more feet and start measuring how close a crane can get, in vision jobs for space for the pieces to get on the ground and have room, thats largely a limiting factor on crane jobs the space underneath and the access.
Use cranes on zeroground impact necessary jobs, where roping down the stems would take 2 or even 3 days a crane will do in a few hours (big difference) when it comes to the bottom line. I would say of the 5 large tree companies in my area 4 of them use a crane weekly. Hope this helps Fred.
Reguards,
Robert

[Mr. Sir]

Xtreme: Thanks for the info, but I think I have a understanding on that part. Is choking the only way to set a sling? What kind of slings are there? I have looked at the lift all slings in the Sherrill catalog. Does the crane provide them or do I need to provide them?

I use steel chokers and shackles always. I never really trusted the webbed slings, especially the covered ones. You never know if they've been overloaded or not and the covering prevents inspection of the fibers.

[lumberjack]

The crane vid isn't the best. A couple years ago Mark mentioned making another, but I haven't heard anything about it.

I learned mainly OTJ like, like Willie and Jon said, most crane stuff is fairly easy if you have conventional rigging under your belt.

Mr Sir, some snythetic slings have tale tails to let you know if the sling has been overloaded. The fibers inside are indeed covered, but generally the sling is designed so the cover has two layers, the inner layer being red or orange. If you see the inside cover, bad juju has occured. Seeing metal fatigue in steel is harder and much dicier than looking at the tale tails.

In the 2-300 crane accident incident reports I've read, it's fairly rare that the cause of the accident was a busted synthetic sling. Just about the only thing I use is 1" Tuflex slings rated to 17.5klbs in the choker configuration. If I need more, I use two shackled together and set through the hook. The connecting shackle is offset to allow the sling to slide in the ball if it needs to equalize.


Sadly, here we can't ride the ball, which seriously slows down the process.

[xtremetrees]

If you do it right, there's no need to run anywhere. The piece just floats away like magic. I love crane jobs. It's all about physics and reading the pick.

I was just funning, I guess I shouldn't. Thats one reason I dont like notching my saw seems to get pinched more with a notch than if I just back cut it. Certainly look at the kerf and read it when your getting close to cut completion. If its opening up or if its closing. If its closing get your saw out really quick if at all possible avoid getting your saw trapped, the crane guy doesn't cut the tree you do. If this happens I try and guide the crane man in a direction to open the cut. I don't tarry long at the cut because the crane guy will tend to add more pressure which generally isn't necessary especially with inexperienced guys.

[Mr. Sir]

Sadly, here we can't ride the ball, which seriously slows down the process.

Same here. AND we can't use a saw one-handed. ;)

[lumberjack]

There's only been one occasion where I was flown.

It makes sense to me that they wouldn't allow flying here. A they don't overly like tree work, thus why make it any easier for the tree folks, and B, they get to make more money because it takes longer to remove a tree climbing vrs flying, thus they make more money.

[MasterBlaster]

Yeah, we had one of the major crane companies decide that there would be no ball riding. Likewise, all the treeguys stopped using them and gave their money the other two crane guys that DID allow ball riding.

After a year or so they decided to allow ball riding. ;)

[lumberjack]

None of the 5 crane companies around here (2 bigger companys and 3 smaller) allow it :(

[MasterBlaster]

That's amazing. It means all the treeco's have to own their cranes.

[lumberjack]

One "competitor" has a 17ton (I think) boom truck with 60' of boom and no jib.

[MasterBlaster]

If you gotta, you can do a lot with it. You just have to get closer, or work the tops out. My first 6 or 7 years of crane work was with a 12 ton. We just about ALWAYS had to climb the tops outta the taller trees.

[doggonetrees]

MB, are the cranes you use equipped with the anti-two block device at near where the ball connects to the winch line?

[MasterBlaster]

Some are, some aren't. It's a PITA for a crane cuz there's a wire running the length of the boom that can easily get hung up on limbs.

[doggonetrees]

Just wondering- where I used to work with a sandblasting/ painting company, we had one that froze up due to the cold and flipped the jib to the high side of the boom when it two blocked.:O

[MasterBlaster]

Heck, that shoulda shut it down.

[cuttenwolf]

the crane video tricked me. not everyone who makes a video actually work with cranes. by the way crane operators have come to a job and then beensent home when their true rules come out. i ride the ball and if that is not good for you then tell me before you get to the job.

[MasterBlaster]

But ultimately, it's the crane company's call, not yours.

[cuttenwolf]

while that may be true i chose not to use a company that will not allow you to ride the hook

[MasterBlaster]

Same here. :drink: