Sprayer/Liquid Fert. Rig

[brendonv]

I keep getting calls to do spraying, and unfortunately I don't have a sprayer so I have been referring someone else.

I might be in the market for a sprayer unit once I can pay off one of my loans.

What brands should I be looking at?

Do they make a sprayer that I can also use from liquid fert injections into the soil? (very important $$$$:)

Please help!

B

[lumberjack]

I've heard good things about Jim Bean pumps, and I'd have it on a trailer rig.

Here local like, I'd be tempted to put it together myself.

[brendonv]

Help a brother OUT! I already have a honda water pump.

[lumberjack]

Oops, meant John Bean, Jim Bean is a sprayer of different sorts.

[lumberjack]

What kinda specs? A normal water transfer pump doesn't make the kinda pressure you need to get your squirt on.

[squisher]

Oops, meant John Bean, Jim Bean is a sprayer of different sorts.


:lol:I was thinking 'wow what a diversified company'.

[sotc]

i built my own soil injection set up but i to would like to get into PHC next year. watching this thread with interest

[brendonv]

Carl, it is a water transfer pump...can we use the engine and maybe all I'll have to do is buy a pump? I am picking it up tommorrow.

I am kinda clueless to all this home made stuff, your the number magician, hook me up!

Willie, post pics/specs PLEASE...this is something I want to start doing.

[Skwerl]

First off, I don't know a single thing about spray rigs. But if I were contemplating getting into spraying, I'd be researching different brands and then I'd be shopping for a used rig. Even if it's not the best or most desirable brand, it will get you into the business at a lot lower cost than new. Use it to learn and build a client base and then in 2-3 years you can buy a new unit with the experience and knowledge necessary to make the right choice.

[brendonv]

First off, I don't know a single thing about spray rigs. But if I were contemplating getting into spraying, I'd be researching different brands and then I'd be shopping for a used rig. Even if it's not the best or most desirable brand, it will get you into the business at a lot lower cost than new. Use it to learn and build a client base and then in 2-3 years you can buy a new unit with the experience and knowledge necessary to make the right choice.

I look every week in the local classifieds, nothing to be found as of yet. Not necessarily wanting a new one, but now that Carl mentioned building one it doesn't seem like rocket science and can keep the cost down....

[lumberjack]

It's also plausible to build it on a skid you put in the back of the 1 ton, however, I'd prefer a trailer getup (cost a bit more).

What HP engine?

Do you want to do foliage apps, or just soil inject? Soil inject uses less pressure, foliage I'd suppose could be used for either (pressure is or could be adjustable).

[lumberjack]

Give me a day or so (probably tonight) and I should have an idea drawn up with a guestimated price.

You could get setup fairly cheaply ($1k or less) but your GPM will be reduced. Like I says, give me a lil time.

[Burnham]

Oops, meant John Bean, Jim Bean is a sprayer of different sorts.

It's Jim Beam, boys...Beam.

Kids, I tell ya...

:P

[stehansen]

I have a sprayer and have never used it since I have been in the tree business. It is a 3 pt. hook up and has a 100 gal tank and a pto driven piston pump. I was thinking about it at one time but I get only a couple of calls per year and I would have to get a bunch of permits and stuff to operate legally here in CA. To squirt up in a tree very far and to break up the material you need 150 psi pressure or so, to spray stuff with a spray nozzle you only need 40 psi or so. I don't know about fertilizer injection I've never done that. I had a weed sprayer that we got from my uncle and it had a 5 hp honda motor and a Hypro pump and a 200 gal stainless tank and was all homemade but my Dad gave it to my cousin. I don't know if they are even listening Burnham.:)

[Canuck]

Make sure you get an electric real

[stehansen]

I've done several of these things if you want some help engineering it.

[sotc]

ill get it together and get some pics tommorow. i can load mine by hand in the back of the truck as i have quick couplers. id like to build a skid so i could load it with the mini and forks, just havent tackled that in a while.

steve, you have a bucket, ive been thinking that a regular spray rig on a skid in the back of the bucket could get your height, minimize over spray and give more even coverage. may have to pass on large back yard jobs though

[Burnham]

....I don't know if they are even listening Burnham.:)

Why am I not surprised, Steve? :roll:

8)

[sotc]

i caught it the first time around but the only thing i like jim for is bbq sauce:D

[lumberjack]

Yeah yeah, what's in a name anyways?

For squirting the tops of the trees I figure 400+ psi, gpm is where the $$$ starts adding up.

[Burnham]

Yeah yeah, what's in a name anyways?


Not much, unless you go try to buy a bottle of good Kentucky Bourbon and end up with a vegetarian burrito instead :whine:.

:lol:

[brendonv]

Carl, if I can reach 50-60' that would be great. According to a guy who has looked into purchasing a unit before, you would want 20-30GPM to reach my goal.

[Stumper]

Oddly, my insurance coverage includes spraying.........but I can't legally apply pesticides without a State license....which I CANNOT simply take and pass a test and pay a fee to adquire. The Special Interests got a handy dandy law passed that one must have 2 full years of experience applying pesticides commerciallly to qualify to take the test.
Meanwhile , my customer who is already in the pest control biz can't justify getting into tree sprayng because it will jack his insurance $4000 per year.
I had a guy offer me a tank, pump and wand 3 years ago for $500 along with an offer to perjure himself regarding my experience working for him. I passed . Silly me. A pox on the infernal government.

[Frans]

Not to sound like Tom but....:P I have a soil injection rig I built up myself but I don't have pictures right here right now.

I will post pictures tonight.

Here are some points to consider.

In calif. to spray herbicides/controlled chemicals, you need to have a Lic. which is expensive and requires not only money (3-4 bills a year) to maintain the cert, but you also have to do alot of paper work, from taking GPS coordinates of every location sprayed, to amounts used, where and how much and what for. Also you must attend classes where they 'teach' you how to understand new labels and material handling requirements.
Quarterly reports must be submitted to the state.

Public perception is set against spraying aerial sprays in my area. Anyone sees a guy out there with a geyser hosing down a tree and they freak out. Drift onto a neighbor's property, on their car, etc. and it is a lawsuit just begging to happen.

Most insect/disease problems can be dealt with by micro-injection (IMO). No one really even knows you are doing it.

So, I built up a soil injection rig and do soil injections with it. It also works well as a pressure washer which is handy for me in hosing off mud and stuff from my equipment.

I just replaced the engine with a 9 horse honda.
You MUST get an engine with a gear reduction. You cannot easily buy an engine without the gear reduction and then install the gear box separately as they are mated to each engine.


Overall, I don't make a hell of alot of money doing fert. jobs, but it is a valuable tool to have in my arsenal. I have gotten alot of work from other tree services which refer me to these jobs.

I will post pictures tonight. Hope this helps.

200 gallon tank with agitator, manual hose reel (which works just fine), and 200 feet of hose.
Got the tank used and built up everything else from scraps and odds and ends.

[lumberjack]

http://www.rittenhouse.ca/asp/Product.asp?PG=584

In kit form, minus the tank and frame:
http://www.rittenhouse.ca/asp/Product.asp?PG=1193

That's a medium height rig, should get you to 45-50'. The main thing I was looking for was the pump specs, which is 21gpm @700PSI.

Here is a larger pump (28gpm), for similar money (from these folks) as the smaller 21gpm pump. (Just figured this out=>) the pump below is spec'ed to run off a PTO, 540rpm max.

http://www.shopetsonline.com/product-p/9910-d1064.htm

You'll need at least 17hp (at 540rpm), assuming a 70% effiecency (based of the above pump/engine setup).

The D813GRGI (rated for 3600rpm input) cost nearly $800 more

http://www.shopetsonline.com/product-p/9910-d813grgi.htm

For the (well) under $800 bucks, you might be able to purchase a reducer to slow the 3600 down to 5-600rpm. I'll look into that this eve.

[Frans]

My pump is an AR 30. Make sure you buy stuff which is 'off the shelf' in your area.

Yes you can get a good deal on-line, but when it needs something having to track down parts can take days. Often the job will not wait days

AR30 pump and a 9 horse engine will squirt about 100 feet in the air with plenty of power to wet a tree.

[lumberjack]

Of course I wouldn't jam the Man up like that, the same company sells repacking kits.

Is this your pump?
http://hypro-diaphragm-pumps.com/Hypro-Diaphragm-Pump-D30-AR-30/M/B0012Q72C0.htm

Or this?
http://hypro-diaphragm-pumps.com/Hypro-Diaphragm-Pump-D30GRGI/M/B0012QAXFI.htm

Seems like it'd take a while to wet a tree, especially @100', but then again you already own it. The specs are 550psi and 8.5gpm.

[lumberjack]

For about 50 bucks you can make the PTO input on the cheaper pump into a female 1.25" keyed input. From there fab up a jack shaft with an 18" pulley on the pump, and a 3" pulley on the engine. The pulley and hub would set you back about $80, so were up to $130. You'd need 2 bearings, 2 belts, an axle, and fab up the frame (simple). So figure for less than $250 you could make the cheap pump work like the pump that cost $800 more work. The missing bit is a regulator, not sure if the cheaper pump includes that or not.

Anyone know what GRGI stands for?

Off to class!

[brendonv]

Thanks for all the feedback.

Here in CT licensing is a must also. In reality you need a license to do anything to a tree besides remove it. 3 part test, written, ID, and oral, brought upon by the DEP. Not many people around here have it, they claim it's too hard, and the DEP doesn't enforce it enough to make it an issue which sucks for the people who have it. But its the law, and I got it and they claim a $2500/day fine if caught doing shotty work without it.

Anyways, I'd like to see some of your guys injection rigs when you get a chance, seems like a good idea. I have thought about just doing tree injections too Frans, as all the worrying folks and drift etc. I may just do that, but wanted to test the waters to see how much a "spray" rig would cost. Seems like a lot.

[lumberjack]

Figure on $3k for a skid setup.

For an injection setup, are you talking about basal system or soil injections?

[Frans]

LJ, the first link is the pump I have. But I might be wrong as I recently priced a new one at two different stores and got a price of a bit over 700 bucks.

Yes, after considering it, the pump may not be just right for spewing cheemikals (Claus Mattucks pronunciation) over 100' in the air.

I have sprayed pretty large trees with it, and it worked just fine.

However, the AR 30 pump is a fine pump for doing everything I want.



---by the way, my set up is BUILT, NOT BOUGHT. I got the tank for 20 bucks and built everything else.

The picture of the rusty engine is my old Briggs & Stratton 6 horse. You can see the gear box on the side for the gear reduction. My new Honda has an integrated gear reduction which uses the same oil bath as the engine.

[sotc]

so heres my pump, tank and wand, inside the tank is my agitator. sorry i didnt put it together but i think you can see how it goes together, if not just say so. i use a heavy garden hose for a line.

[lumberjack]

Snarf, the first is just the pump, w/o the regulator or the gearbox. The second is the pump, regulator, and gear box.

[inztrees]

I don't know what kind og rig I used but today I put 'bout 600 gal. of boost (firt) in the ground I think Its a john bean

[Ax-Man]

Frans,
I like your homemade rig, very similar to what I have only your trailor is much nicer looking than the junky thing I got for my skid mount Lesco rig. That old Briggs is the very same engine I have but I think mine is a 8 HP. I even have a Hypro pump on my rig. Even that Hanaway handcrank reel is the same.

Just to add a little more to the thread that I haven't seen mentioned is the type of pump and agitation method needed for applying chemicals and fertilizers.

There are two types of pumps. Diaphram and piston pumps. The diaphram pumps are ok for concentrated liquids that are diluted with water. For water soluable granular material like the Dogget fertilizer we use you need a piston pump. The abrasiveness of the granular material when in suspension will eat a diaphram pump up in no time. To me piston pumps are the best even though they are more expensive than a diaphram.

Two types of agitation are available for the tanks. Jet and mechanical agitators. Jet agitators work similar to a hot tub recircualting the water in the tank by using jets located in the tank. This type of agitation is ok for strictly liquid products. A mechanical agitator is a shaft that runs at the bottom of the tank with paddles on the shaft and is turned by a drive belt from the engine. Mechanical agitation is much better suited for water soulable granular fertilizers.

For simple soil injection of fertilizers I run about 125 psi sometimes 150. I don't if this is true or not but too much pressure can blow the root hairs off of the main roots. There have been a few cases of trees being injured from have high pressure or too much psi when doing soil injections.

All the other info given is right on for actual spraying of trees. Which I also avoid. It is all a matter of gpm on the pump size and psi that deterimes how high up a tree you want to go.

I hope this helps Brendov out a little. I have been down this road myself. Decisions decisions. Fertilizing is a good money maker because you can schedule it better if weather conditions are not favorable for high tree work. You can apply fertilizer during high windy days or if you want to don a raincoat you can fertilize in a pouring rain if you want too. Spraying for bugs and diseases is a matter of timing that never worked out for me and like has been said is pretty much frowned upon these days by John Q. Public. Not to mention the possible lawsuit your opening yourself up to.

[sotc]

my pump is centrifical and i run a soluble powder. i tried granular but always had junk left in the tank

[Frans]

Good post, thanks Larry. Those 'soluble' powders often do not really dissolve and leave junk passing through the system. I had not mentioned that. Many a filter has been gummed up from them.

I use a surfactant derived from the yucca plant which helps to get everything mixed a bit (I think)

[sotc]

filter?, no filters on mine that know of. i use myco apply soluble from http://www.mycorrhizae.com/index.php?cid=555
seems to dissolve completly:?

[Frans]

filter?, no filters on mine that know of. i use myco apply soluble from http://www.mycorrhizae.com/index.php?cid=555
seems to dissolve completly:?

You snake oil salesman you!

http://www.drbronner.com/pdf/drbronner_32oz_Alm.pdf

[sotc]

hahahaaha:D i use it to try and kick start barren soils in new sub divisions and for pre/post construction treatments. i have a clear concsionce:)

[vharrison]

Brendon, do you have a license to spray? Is that required in your state?

Check out Northern Equipment

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/category_6970_99+118

[Frans]

hahahaaha i use it to try and kick start barren soils in new sub divisions and for pre/post construction treatments. i have a clear conscience

Those are about the only examples where I WOULD apply that stuff. Greenhouses with sterile soil is another example

[brendonv]

Brendon, do you have a license to spray? Is that required in your state?

Check out Northern Equipment

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/category_6970_99+118

I do. A license in CT is necessary to do anything to a tree besides remove it. I also hold a supervisory pesticide applicators license.

[brendonv]

I got that little water pump today, it's got a 5.5 hp Honda engine.

I was looking through Sherrill catalog and they have a 5.5hp Honda, with a "k40" pump, puts out 10gpm at 550psi. I'm wondering what kinda height that would reach.

I am now thinking if I can reach 50ish feet that would be good for most anything. Anything over that it would be a inject-able pesticide.

I can't seem to find what they are using as the "K40" pump.


Where you at CArl.

[brendonv]

Ah, a Kappa 40 pump will reach 40'. If I get the pump/gear box combo similar to Frans, I would just need a tank, some hose, a frame, and a gun for spraying and root feeding. Doesn't seem to bad.

[lumberjack]

Geez, if only you had my cell number.

[lumberjack]

Belts could/would be cheaper than a gear box, and a gear box is only needed if the pump can't run at the engine's speed.

[Jonseredbred]

Check out Gregson Clark Spraying Equipment.

http://www.gregsonclark.com/

They are about a mile from me. Rhett is a good guy with alot of experience.

[Skwerl]

Brendon, I'll give you Carl's cell number and we can both prank call him in the middle of the night. :lol:

[brendonv]

haha, i have it.

It's just he talks like he has a bag of marbles in his mouth.

[stehansen]

Don't forget the surge chamber if you have a roller or piston pump.

[TC3]

Brendon, you've made other posts that suggest you're trying to diversify & expand your biz, which is smart. If you're going to get serious about investing in the PHC side of things as a money maker, be prepared for it to take a long time to establish accounts.
You might consider starting low & slow. See if it works out for you & decide from there if it's worth continuing.
One idea might be to just get a little 2 gal. unit & offer a service of spraying Round-Up for your customers (driveways, planting beds, parking areas, etc.). I charge an average of $30 for this. It's a quick money maker & opens the door for more PHC queries.
A really organised person would set those particular profits aside for investing in more spray equip. & supplies, which I have not done.
PHC is a different creature. Having / being a knowledgeable salesperson is a must.

[Stumper]

Brendon, I'll give you Carl's cell number and we can both prank call him in the middle of the night. :lol:


Other volunteers, please step forward.

[lumberjack]

(Draws line in the sand)


:blackknight:

[Paul B]

867-5309, just gotta figure the area code ;)

[sotc]

(Draws line in the sand, then steps back and draws new line)


:blackknight:.

[lumberjack]

Hahah the area code is 662, not sure who you'll get if you ring Pauly's number.

[brendonv]

Well I did some quick math today. It looks like building it myself, without counting the frame and time, I would be $500 away from just buying an already built small unit.

Of course this is all brand new stuff, because I don't often see these parts separated around here.

A friend of mine priced out a unit similar to what I want to build for 3k. I'll probably wait till the end of the season, or maybe next spring.

If I get that job I spoke of in another thread, I can pay off my mini skid steer and that would leave more $ for a rig.

Decisions decisions.

[hugashe]

jenny are you there?

[MasterBlaster]

Yeah. What do ya need? :drink:

[Paul B]

Jenny (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/867-5309/Jenny)

[stehansen]

Jenny (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/867-5309/Jenny)

Ha!

[Husky385]

this is my rig , well pump and engine..

http://www.rittenhouse.ca/asp/product.asp?PG=583

[sotc]

i like the look of that setup, are you happy with it? do you only spray with it ? how do you clean the tank between products?

[Husky385]

i like the look of that setup, are you happy with it? do you only spray with it ? how do you clean the tank between products?


Spray [foliar fert, no weed killer or pesticide] and deep root fert, i'm very happy with the set-up, I clean the tank with a pressure washer and flush the hoses, I like the pump and the engine, no problems so far, I use a Sherril fert needle...

[sotc]

thanks