SRT Setups

[jtrouse]

Hey all im interested in how people are running SRT setups im running the tree frog setup dont have any pics right now but id love to see what others are doing with regard to how its all attached etc.

Ill post some pics soon. but feel free to bet me to it.

[lumberjack]

Mine is simple. CMI Expidition ascender on a tether, ISC Rocker, and my pantin.

[sotc]

i think mines the tree frog also, one hand ascender, one foot ascender, one chest ascender and a foot loop to the handled one

[Frans]

Mine is simple. CMI Expidition ascender on a tether, ISC Rocker, and my pantin.

Carl, please don't use the rocker for this. It will not grab when you need it to because of the rope not being loaded. :big-no:

[brendonv]

Mine is simple. CMI Expidition ascender on a tether, ISC Rocker, and my pantin.


Ditto, minus the Rocker. Buzz folks razzed me so I changed out and now tie a VT above the acender. The VT, ascender, and tether all share the top biner, then there is a biner on the bottom to connect to my saddle.

[lumberjack]

I guess I'm missing how the rocker doesn't work? It's never failed/scared me/given any indication that it wasn't there to catch me.

[brendonv]

As I understand it, when the line is tight, the rocker doesn't grab...here's how I replaced it, (and I owe you your rocker back).

[High Scale]

Thanks for the pics of you're set up, seems very simple, a great help.

[lumberjack]

As I understand it, when the line is tight, the rocker doesn't grab...here's how I replaced it, (and I owe you your rocker back).

I aint saying that's not what they told you, but that's incorrect. The ONLY way the rocker doesn't grab is if there isn't a load on the rocker.

When I get home I'll see if the rocker will still grab when the line is tensioned to a couple thousand lbs, that may prevent it from grabbing with only body weight.

[lumberjack]

Oh, and you can bring the rocker back this August ;)

[top hopper]

Im with Carl on this.....

Ive done my own experimenting and the only time the rocker doesnt grab is when its not loaded.

When attached to the rocker, it will rotate slightly and then grab, thats how its supposed to work.

I havent seen any evidence proving that it is not safe to use other than some "speculation" by TB members. Nor have I ever had it not grab the line.

[lumberjack]

Top was caught by my Rocker on a pretensioned safety line.

The only risk I'm thinking is if the line was loaded to the point where the Rocker couldn't rotate and grab. Like I said, I'll find out when I get home.

[Ace76]

Anyone ever tried a double bungee rope walker setup. I ascended a 200ft pit yesterday using it. Its the most efficient climbing system in existence. Very easy to climb, and i am 230lbs.

[simplypete]

Anyone ever tried a double bungee rope walker setup. I ascended a 200ft pit yesterday using it. Its the most efficient climbing system in existence. Very easy to climb, and i am 230lbs.

Pictures or link please.

pete

[treesandsurf]

If you use the Croll chest ascender, is it necessary to backup the hand ascenders with a VT or Distel or prusik etc...??

jp:D

[lumberjack]

If the Croll is attached to your saddle and the hand ascender(s) are also, then no.

Mechanically you need 2 forms of attachment above your waist, that are connected to your saddle (not just a chest harness).

[treesandsurf]

So the pantin doesn't count 8)


jp:D

[Jman]

So the pantin doesn't count 8)


jp:D

Does hanging from your one foot sound fun? :D

Personally I like a 3 wrap prussik just above my hand acender for kicks. Its easy to tie and its a nice back up. 2 points of attachment are enough. Just my preferance.

[Ace76]

Pictures or link please.

pete

I dont have a picture of the setup yet. Here is a couple pics of the pit.

3982

3983

3984

3985

[MasterBlaster]

I think I've seen someone base jumping into that.

[NickfromWI]

I'm looking to put the double bungee together. Still need a few more pieces.

[simplypete]

That looks like one "hell" of a good time. I would be into something like that if'n there was something around where I lived to do it. Closest thing to that is a lava tube that is about 30 or 50 ft. vertical and about the the length of a couple of football fields horizontal. Some places are real tight, like you have to get down on your belly and inch worm your way through. Once you get through the tight spot it opens back up and eventually you run into water and can not go any further. Good fun. Stay safe. Seems like rescue would be a lot harder if you were having to lift instead of lower the person you were having to rescue.

[squisher]

I had rockclimbing instructors when I was younger who were these crazy brits that did underwater caving, crazy tight stuff. Nuts, not for me.

[Frans]

Nick, on your right foot you can instead use a pantin with the bungee attached. Makes for a cleaner set up.

This is the set up I use. Also, the CMI chest plate is not as nice as the Rock Exotica.

The CMI grabs the rope and the rope does not feed as cleanly. Not a huge difference except when you are on a long ascent.
I like the OnRope chest harness because it is well made and very comfortable. Also make sure the bungee is over long as you will want to adjust it to fit your body type.

It might be cheaper to buy the whole kit instead of piecing it out.

www.onrope1.com

[wiley_p]

My old setup is 2 jumars, a daisy chain, and dual footloops. The rig I am using now is almost exactly like Nicks diagram except as Frans said I have a Pantin on my foot, thinking of going to a CMI foot ascender. Fast, fast, fast and easy canopy entry. All fits in the zippered Newtribe pouch.:evil:

[Frans]

I have yet to buy the CMI foot ascender. To me anyway, it seems like the cmi would be better because it looks like it is harder to slip off of the rope.

[lumberjack]

I'm not having any luck getting the Rocker to not grab the rope.

[top hopper]

I knew you wouldnt.

[simplypete]

I think I've seen someone base jumping into that.

did you see my sponsors logo in the picture. 8)

[Ace76]

Nick, on your right foot you can instead use a pantin with the bungee attached. Makes for a cleaner set up.

This is the set up I use. Also, the CMI chest plate is not as nice as the Rock Exotica.

The CMI grabs the rope and the rope does not feed as cleanly. Not a huge difference except when you are on a long ascent.
I like the OnRope chest harness because it is well made and very comfortable. Also make sure the bungee is over long as you will want to adjust it to fit your body type.

It might be cheaper to buy the whole kit instead of piecing it out.

www.onrope1.com


On Rope 1 chest harness is very comfortable. They were actually the ones teaching the verticle class. A 200 foot pit for my first Rappel was quite a rush and scary:O

[Frans]

I'm not having any luck getting the Rocker to not grab the rope.

I was scared off it from the rantings at the Buzz so I have stopped using it.

Might have to reconsider...

[NickfromWI]

I keep ALMOST buying the pmi chest roller

http://www.howiesharnesses.com/catalog/images/singlerollerpmi.jpg

love
nick

[gf beranek]

That Rock Exotica chest roller is a mighty fine thing. Far superior to the Simmon's. Just wish the plate for the RE was engineered as fine as the roller itself.

[brendonv]

I'm not having any luck getting the Rocker to not grab the rope.

Well maybe I wont give your rocker back :D...still gotta send you the $$-damnit!

[lumberjack]

The only way I know of to make it slip is pull on the non carabiner hole when it's loaded.

If you were really talented and could grab it and keep it from rotating even a smig on the rope, it wouldn't grab either, but that's near impossible.

Remember you're coming to the ITCC Brendon? That was the DEALIO!

[NickfromWI]

Gerry- you've piqued my interest....what don't you like about the plate?

love
nick

[Burnham]

I'm not having any luck getting the Rocker to not grab the rope.


I knew you wouldnt.

My expectation as well.

My understanding is that the Rocker design is really a knockoff of the Ushba Basic ascender...and in my experience the Ushba is a bombproof handleless ascender/rope grab.

[High Scale]

OK, I tried SRT for the first time today and found it pretty hard going physically, I only used one ascender with the VT above as back up, a attachment from the ascender to my harness plus a Pantin.

I am a total novice when it comes to SRT, mind you, I got up the tree pretty quick.

[Skwerl]

High Scale,
I also use one handled ascender backed up by my VT and a Pantin on my foot. I cannot understand why everyone using this combination wants to put the VT above the handled ascender. I leave my VT on the center ring on my saddle, that way I don't have to retie it when I get up in the tree and switch back over to a standard doubled rope setup. I just unclip and stow the ascender, untie the top of the rope and then crotch in and secure it back to my saddle. I'm ready to descend without ever touching the VT.

The only drawback to my (very simple and basic) setup is that I cannot easily or quickly descend on the SRT setup. But I'll live with that miniscule risk. Any setup allowing quick descent off an SRT setup requires a lot more time and gear to use.

[pete mctree]

I use the same set-up. Simple compact and gear friendly.

:)

[Bodean]

I'm a complete noveau never SRT'd before.

I just came across this bag of tricks and was wondering
if any of you experienced fellas could help me use this gear.

Where does it all go?

[Skwerl]

As well as you can footlock, I'm not sure if it's necessary. I only use SRT for entry into big trees and then switch over to the standard DdRT once in the tree. You might find most SRT methods slower than footlocking.

[Bodean]

I'm thinking If I have a big hanger in a Cypress 100' up,
I'd rather be mellow srt directly to the branch as opposed to footlocking or climbing through the tree causing collateral climbing damage.
I know also I'll be getting older one day and I hear footlocking is tough on the knees after a bit of time.

[lumberjack]

Deva that's one complete system and parts of two others it looks like.

The two handled ascenders clip into your bridge giving you 2 points of contact with the rope. The one stirrup goes down to the left leg, pantin on the right and you're good to go. The only thing that makes it easier is a chest harness will a roller box. There is a slight savings using a different system that has bungy cords that advance the ascenders for you, but it's not all that greatly suited for the tree world.

[Bodean]

Thank You Carl.

[No_Bivy]

learn them all.....decide what you like......use where appropriate.

[sotc]

score deva! even if footlocking is faster, srt is easier. enjoy

[lumberjack]

The main safety thing is having 2 seperate points of contact with the rope. Some would argue that the center system uses the same biner and that's a no-go, I don't think it matters that much.

My usual SRT system is fairly simple, for a WCV I'd probably incorporate both legs into the lifting action (alternating preferably, as opposed to both legs pushing together).

[Frans]

the green bungee thingys are lanyards for chainsaws

[lumberjack]

I'm not sure if they are chainsaw lanyards or bungee ascender lanyards.

[No_Bivy]

those a bungee laynard for a kong double or marbar

[Frans]

Thats right, my mistake. Made by Buckingham. Like alot of stuff they make, built real rugged.
To much for my style of climbing. I got one laying around somewheres..

[OTGBOSTON]

I'm kinda suprised no one mentioned climbing DRT off of the ascender?!?! Instead of a teather I put a biner with pulley in the top hole of the ascender and run my DRT set up through that. If I have to bail I unhook the pantin and croll, spike the line, and bail....

[No_Bivy]

working off cams is no go for me. Weapon is better for that

[Bodean]

I've been dorking around with the stuff in the backyard a few times.

I can see it great for long ascents.
I can't seem to get the double stirrup strap set to work smoothly,
I find I do a one arm pullup, I know that's not efficent.

How does this setup look?
It's just a slipknot.

[No_Bivy]

DONT work off that cam......

[darkstar]

I second that, dont work off cams.
If you do have a solid back up .

[Bodean]

I saw it once at an aerial rescue TCC in Santa Rosa.

I admit it seems sketchy.
I'd almost think a prusik to a micropulley or Alpine butterfly girthed to a carabeaner and a micropulley.

[No_Bivy]

a prussick would be better.....with a back up knot below it.

[OTGBOSTON]

how about a friction hitch above the cam and a stopper knot below?

Deva, you need a footloop for the handled ascender, makes it like climbing a ladder...8)

[treesandsurf]

In Deva's picture of the SRT setup, can you put a distel or VT ABOVE the ascender to make it safe to work off of?

jp:D

[Skwerl]

Yes. But if you're going to do that, why have the ascender? :?

[sotc]

something nice to hold onto

[OTGBOSTON]

something nice to hold onto

yup.

[No_Bivy]

In Deva's picture of the SRT setup, can you put a distel or VT ABOVE the ascender to make it safe to work off of?

jp:D

long as you open the cam before starting work. A fall on a cam can tear the sheath something fierce......or just use the WEAPON

[Bodean]

Is this what you're talking about
with a prussik?

You could change the prussik for a VT or whatever also?

[No_Bivy]

much better..........cept' the splice on the end of your rope

[Bodean]

That's just so I know right where my core is.
Besidies that's my rec. saddle.

Work saddle has a spliced Hi-vee safety blue.

wink emoticon.

[No_Bivy]

i figured your'e core.....

[OTGBOSTON]

Is this what you're talking about
with a prussik?

You could change the prussik for a VT or whatever also?

yep, and you could run the whole mess right through the top of the ascender. I like Nobiv's idear about opening the cam before starting to work off of it though.......

[Frans]

Instead of locking the ascender into the open position, I put a full load on the upper cam (you can use a prussik as well), then I allow the ascender to close.
The idea being that the full load is on the upper part of the set up. so if the upper should slip, then the lower will 'kick in'.

[No_Bivy]

cams cut ropes.........take it off. The prussick is BOMBER:D

[top hopper]

I agree. Open the cam!!

[Blinky]

In the comps they're saying disengage the cams before working... I'm just sayin'.

[Frans]

In the comps they're saying disengage the cams before working... I'm just sayin'.

I'm not sure thats true, if we are talking about the same thing. You MUST always have a back up system in place for a primary anchor point. Opening the lower cam, allowing the upper to take the weight, and then closing the lower cam is the norm in my experience.

[No_Bivy]

no..there was a rule change, all cams open with back up above

[Frans]

no..there was a rule change, all cams open with back up above

All cams LOCKED open? So your primary only has a prussik type knot holding?

Or are you saying that a marlin spike knot is used, then the locked open ascenders above that, then a prussik up top?

[treesandsurf]

yep, and you could run the whole mess right through the top of the ascender. I like Nobiv's idear about opening the cam before starting to work off of it though.......

So you can put the vt hooked to the top of the ascender and then connect the biner with the pulley and DdRT setup on the lower portion of the ascender??

jp:D

[OTGBOSTON]

So you can put the vt hooked to the top of the ascender and then connect the biner with the pulley and DdRT setup on the lower portion of the ascender??

jp:D

Nope, like this, all on the same 'biner, all up top. Then the footloop on the bottom part of the ass-ender

[Wagnaw]

All cams LOCKED open? So your primary only has a prussik type knot holding?

Or are you saying that a marlin spike knot is used, then the locked open ascenders above that, then a prussik up top?

Marlin Spike is required, yes.

[top hopper]

Nope, like this, all on the same 'biner, all up top. Then the footloop on the bottom part of the ass-ender

Thats the proper way to do it.

Then back up with marlin spike and open the cam on the handled ascender.

[squisher]

Ok another rookie question here, but I'm curious. How do you guys tie off your SRT access line either at the base of the tree or when running it up to a limb? Any pics would be great.

[MasterBlaster]

I don't even practice SRT, but I would use a running bowline.

[squisher]

That's what I'm thinking but just fishing for idears. I think I'm finally wrapping my head around this SRT stuff.

[Skwerl]

Yup, running bowline. It can be rather disconcerting sometimes when pulling the knot up out of your reach. It's the 'point of no return' where you're commiting yourself to going up that rope, otherwise you're not getting your rope back.
:P

[squisher]

I know!:O

Lol

[brendonv]

RB with yosemitie?, and double fisherman the tail back onto the line.

[OTGBOSTON]

yup, running bowlin for an isolated limb. I like to leave a long enough tail so I know I can grab it easily to switch over.

for a trunk tie off it gets more complex. a running bowlin would probably work, or you could use a timberhitch. preferred method is to use a sling and run a gri-gri or porta wrap or munter, to aid in a rescue from the ground.

and Brendan: add a footloop to that ascender, cheap and sooooooooo worth it.

[squisher]

Dang man if you seen my groundie lower limbs ya might not be suggesting that.:D

[Skwerl]

Brendon runs the same low profile SRT setup that I do, except I use a loop runner between the ascender and carabiner to attach to my saddle (It was what I had and the length worked). If I need to use both feet, I'll just put my left foot on top of my right foot so I'm pushing on the Pantin with both feet. No need for extra straps dangling.

[squisher]

The strap wood only be dangling when ya weren't using it, not when your foot's in it.:P

[OTGBOSTON]

The strap wood only be dangling when ya weren't using it, not when your foot's in it.:P

and sooooo much 'mo betta. You could probably make one out of a couple of web slings.

The difference, oh squirrely one, is like riding a bike compared to hopping down the street on one foot

[top hopper]

For anchoring I usually use a running bowline at the base, But it would be best to make the system lowerable. This can be done with a wide array of friction devices or even a type of friction hitch. To acheive this you either need to fashion the ascent line into an endless loop or have 3 times the amount of rope vs the height of your TIP. The endless loop would be favored by me as you would need less rope to do it. As for the best type of device, Id say a Gri gri, or even a few trunk wraps secured with a friction hitch, backed up with a slip knot beneath the device or hitch.

[brendonv]

I've never ran the setup I've posted. Carl set me up with just an ascender like shown, but with an ISC Rocker at my waist. The T-Buzz police said the Rocker won't grab, thats why I was playing with that pictured setup.

[Skwerl]

Why not just use your VT hitch at your waist? I only use one rope, I'm not high tech enough to have one rope for access and then a second line for working. Besides, that would tend to get the ground guys tangled (The ones who aren't very skilled with chainsaws, but are using them around my ropes). Especially if there's any lowering work to do.

Anyways, by using my friction hitch as my backup, I don't have to retie it once I'm in the tree. I just lanyard in, untie the end of my lifeline, then attach it to my saddle with a biner and I'm DdRT ready to work.

[top hopper]

There is no basis for the Rocker statements at the buzz.
Whats been said is that when the line is taught below the device it wont likely grab. Ive tried many times to get it "not to grab" and it always does. And from what Ive noticed is that is more likely to grab when the line is taught beneath it.

It only takes a slight rotation of the device for it to grab and it is easier for that rotation to occur if the device is above you rather than at your waist. IMO.

I have no reservations at all about the Rocker and will continue to use it until I hear more than just observated opinions as to whether its safe or not.

[Burnham]

If I can I set up an anchor at the base of another nearby tree, running through a rappel rack for letdown capability.

I have always used SRT on tall conifers. One risk with trees like this is that the limb configuration is relatively weak in many cases, so I want the ascent line to stay right up at the branch/trunck union. A good way to keep that rope there is to run the tail off behind the trunk and in an opposite direction than the one the limb is on, down to the anchor point on the nearby tree...keeps the line from creeping out the limb.

[top hopper]

Why not just use your VT hitch at your waist? I only use one rope, I'm not high tech enough to have one rope for access and then a second line for working. Besides, that would tend to get the ground guys tangled (The ones who aren't very skilled with chainsaws, but are using them around my ropes). Especially if there's any lowering work to do.

Anyways, by using my friction hitch as my backup, I don't have to retie it once I'm in the tree. I just lanyard in, untie the end of my lifeline, then attach it to my saddle with a biner and I'm DdRT ready to work.


But if the ascender above that hitch failed, wouldnt it be likely to slide down atop the hitch thereby releasing it? Or do you think it would catch first?

Im not harping you bud, Im just playing the devil's advocate.

I prefer a dedicated ascent line, because if you run into problems half way up (in mid air) the transition to descending is much easier and faster.

[brendonv]

There seems to be too much grey area with SRT.

With that said, I've have always been sketched out when using SRT.:what:

[Frans]

I don't advise using a porta-wrap or figure 8 at the base of the tree. Too easy to undo, and if you are not careful, the whole shebang comes shebanging down.

I like the 'Freedom foot ascender' (Pantin, but that is french, and this is the U.S.) :)
But check out the new CMI foot ascender. It looks to me like it wont jump off the rope as easily.

[squisher]

I've got a pantin(french is allowed up here), otherwise I wouldn't be going nowhere in a tree without spikes.:D

[sotc]

i just run a running bowlin also. i like the hitch idea though

[Tom Dunlap]

A timber hitch tie off at the base is not the best anchor. The TH can walk itself open if it is tensioned and slacked. This can happen if there is some rope ascent then some limb climbing.

If you're going to to a trunk anchor it is pretty easy to add a belay system to the anchor. Either a friction device like a rack or I'd or do a trunk wrap with a friction hitch.

[Burnham]

I guess I left that part off of my previous post...I most often attach my rack to a daisy chain-like woven webbing multi-pocket sling called Omni-sling, preferably double wrapped around the anchor tree's base.

[Will]

Climbing on a timber hitch? That's a bad idea. Figure 8s are my preferred remote tie off. pulling a bowline through branches hoping it wont spill, and you don't know till you get there(or not) no thanks. 8s are A-bomb proof!!!:)

[Frans]

Climbing on a timber hitch? That's a bad idea. Figure 8s are my preferred remote tie off. pulling a bowline through branches hoping it wont spill, and you don't know till you get there(or not) no thanks. 8s are A-bomb proof!!!:)


Imagine you have to be lowered down. You full weight in on your climbing line. O.K. Your help runs to the base of the tree, unties the lock from the figure 8, looks up at you, and the rope suddenly releases through the figure 8 and down you go splat to the ground.


That thought is what makes me stay away from the figure 8 in that situation.

[DMc]

Frans, it is important to recognize when some concerns are legitimate or irrational. Think about what you just said. If you have an aerial rescue situation and your groundman can't figure out how to use a figure 8, how on earth do you expect him to safely accomplish an aerial rescue?

Whereas I prefer to use a small Port-a-Wrap as it is much easier to remove the tie off and not lose your friction, any system requires training in its proper use. This is much less time consuming and simpler for the average groundman to accomplish than a true aerial rescue.

As in all systems there are many more scenarios to consider and adapt to. There is no need on a system like this to have the ropes exposed to careless groundmen with chainsaws and certainly we don't allow the general public to be walking through because the worksite is secured, right?

I don't use a system like this in EVERY tree I do because sometimes it is totally impractical but it is a nice tool to have in your knowledge bag.

Dave

[treesandsurf]

Nope, like this, all on the same 'biner, all up top. Then the footloop on the bottom part of the ass-ender

Maybe this is a new idea 8)?? Probably not....

What about having a VT for the friction saver above the cam with two rings on the eyes (big and small) and running your DdRT setup through those rings with the ascender and footstrap/pantin below that. Then you could work off your DdRT and it would be retrievable to move tie-in points in the tree?

Just a thought, I'll try and setup and take a pic.

jp:D

[OTGBOSTON]

Just a thought, I'll try and setup and take a pic.

jp:D


please do:)

[Frans]

I think this is a very intelligent statement:

I don't use a system like this in EVERY tree I do because sometimes it is totally impractical but it is a nice tool to have in your knowledge bag.

All too often we stick with a system or method just because we like it, or it's new, or some 'expert' told us to use it.
Even when in a particular situation where it is not the best.

[sotc]

Imagine you have to be lowered down. You full weight in on your climbing line. O.K. Your help runs to the base of the tree, unties the lock from the figure 8, looks up at you, and the rope suddenly releases through the figure 8 and down you go splat to the ground.


That thought is what makes me stay away from the figure 8 in that situation.

a properly set up figure 8 cant come undone with out opening the support biner. at the worst theyd drop the rope (which is bad enough). the other way (biner in the big ring)of running a figure 8 would be looking to die if used in this scenario

[jtrouse]

I started this thread and there is no pictures from me!!!! There will be on the weekend. Im liking all the ideas though.