Double Braid Class 1 Splice

[jtrouse]

Just wondered what is the shortest double braid eye to eye length that can be made. i want to splice a piece onto my ascender for srt use. i tried to do one finished length of 70cm but i didnt have enough length to extract more to do the third mark on the core. Also when i was doing a whiplock the end of the needle broke off im thinking the rope shouldnt be used for life support or would it be ok?

Is there another way of doing eye to eye double braid or is it not possible to make short slings?

[NickfromWI]

What size rope are you using and what type of rope are you using?

There is something wrong if the needle broke off.

I would use a single braid for this application.

love
nick

[jamie]

mind and use a thimble if you are going straight onto a sharp edge of your ascender as well.

Jamie

[NickfromWI]

Good advice, jamie. What ascender are you using, jim?

Jim- I just did the math using google calculator, and I've done double braid eye-eye's with 3/8th NER Sta-set as short as 22", which comes to 56cm, so I know you can do a 70cm sling, but it'd be easier to do single braid.

love
nick

[jamie]

I've done chainsaw strops in double braid. Its much easier to do with a single braid, i've made a few with 6mm marlow D12

Jamie

[jtrouse]

Would i splice them as per usual cause i did one eye then when i tried to do the second eye i couldnt get enough cover out to do the third mark on the core, its beeline 10mm double braid, its a petzel hand ascender. its the cord for the attachment from harness to ascender and is not always loaded its slack, the tree frog srt setup.

[NickfromWI]

Jamie- good catch on the thimble. I have the ISC ascenders and they are as thick as a carabiner and I don't use a thimble on them, so don't think about it ever.

Jim, you surely should use a thimble on those thin, thin petzl ascenders.

Yep, I think on the short slings I did I shortened the core and cover tails each by 1", then proceeded as normal.

love
nick

[jamie]

I've always managed to get the eyes done as per usual. i don't tie a knot while pefoming the second splice.
When i have pulled the slack out i jam a small fid (i won't be using) through teh core to stop it retracting back into the rope

Jamie

[Hollywood]

Samson states that a minimum of 5 fid lengths is required between extraction points on an eye/eye sling of doublebraid.

[jtrouse]

what directions did you use jamie i followed the samson directions for double braid class 1 and used 10mm sized fid to do the splice.

Nick if i reduced it by an inch where did you start this mark from??

[NickfromWI]

Are you splicing 10mm line?

Jim- I'm not recommending that you go shortening the tails on your splices. It is those tails that is holding the splice together. I was confident that the sling would work well for the application I wanted and it was more important to have a short sling.

I was more telling you about it to say, "hey- I spliced a sling wayyyyy shorter than what you're talking about, but I cheated when I did it."

love
nick

[jtrouse]

Do you know what directions are advised for doing 10mm beeline if i wanted the finished length at 70cm? or would it have to be just a standard double braid splice?

[NickfromWI]

Standard double braid splice.

[jtrouse]

Thanks heaps for that nick i thought so, just want to be completly sure about it.

[NickfromWI]

Do you need beeline? Maybe you can use a different line?

[jtrouse]

its for using as prusic cord on a vt. So im open to any suggestions that would work better or just as well. i like the feel of beeline 10mm being thicker and still lasting as long.
Like i said i was trying to get the finished length 70cm or as close as possible to that.

[Hollywood]

Yale (who manufactures Beeline) does not give a minimum length for eye/eye slings spliced in doublebraid. * Perhaps Nick has some input on this* I imagine Samson indicates 5-fids-between-extraction-points as a minimum for security because the core and cover of doublebraid must share the load for maximum strength. Too short between end points; an imbalance between core and cover would compromise splice strength.

[NickfromWI]

Hollywood, a mostly proper done splice will share the load evenly. I think that samson is saying 5 fids because it is inconvenient (though possible) to splice things short than that.

You can safely make a 14" beeline sling if using the small beeline. I'd do crossed-over tails to avoid the "hour-glassing" you'd end up with otherwise.

love
nick

[jamie]

My experience of eye eye D/B slings is that the taper stiffens up the cord quite a bit. i've never used one as a VT only a split tail and the taper is spot on for my split tails. I use a selma (tubular) fid. can't mind the size, the middle of my selection.

Jamie