Is there something I could do differently here?

[Wagnaw]

So, last time I tried to splice the other end of my PI, I could not get the core to stay on the Fid all the way through in the motion shown by the photos. I tried it twice last time, but couldn't get it through. So, here I am again, but before I go further, I am wondering if there is something that I'm missing. Maybe something the may make this easier. Talk about struggling... the Fid I'm using is a 10mm Sampson Fid, so you'd think it would fit ok. :X

So... any suggestions?

[Wagnaw]

P.S. This is how I've spliced double braid before, but it was no way near as difficult as this PI. Granted, it was 5/8 stable braid, which is nice and fat.

[Blinky]

Big stable braid is nice and loose, used PI is gets kinda tight.

I use a wire fid on 24 strand and everything goes pretty smoothly, it's getting everything to go home after you bury that I struggle with.

[Wagnaw]

So, I hear alot of people talk about using a wire Fid, but I don't really get how they work. What's the deal?

[Blinky]

You bend a coat hanger or piece of piano wire in half. Insert it at the exit point, push it out at the entry point, catch some or all of the taper in the bent tip kinda like threading a needle, and then PULL it through.

That's the simple version, you PULL rather than PUSH.

It's important to make sure you don't get into the core when you insert it. You check it by making sure the core still slips back and forth after the fid is all the way through.

Make sense?

[Wagnaw]

Ok... that makes sense. Thanks. Ohh... and is there any trick to keeping the taper from falling off of the wire? Cause I'm guessing you just pinch the tapper between the bend, right?

[Blinky]

Just pinch enough of it but not the whole length of it. It won't come loose because the jacket is so tight. I've had it come loose a couple of times when I pinched too little of it.

.050" piano wire is better than a coat hanger. Get it anywhere they tune or repair pianos. It's cheap. Anchor it to a dowel to make it easier to grip or push with your foot.

[No_Bivy]

toss splicing wand any better?

[Blinky]

never used one. wire works fine though.

[Skwerl]

I use the bent coat hanger and then wrap it with masking tape to keep the rope pinched in the wire and hold the taper. Not a high production method with the wrapping and unwrapping and throwing away all the used tape, but I don't lose the taper halfway through the pull either.

[Wagnaw]

Thanks yall. I'm in the process of wrestling with it now. I'll post pics when I'm done.

[Wagnaw]

Well here it is so far. This is the farthest I've ever gotten this rope. But...Talk about a wrestling match!!!! :whine:

Maybe I'll set up a single line somewhere and descend toward it. ...unless you all have any more hints. :D

[Blinky]

You ain't gonna want to hear this but... you need to back that out about 6" or 8" and get the slack zeroed out before you suck it back in. Otherwise, you'll have a baggy eye splice.

Spike or stitch the crossover when the slack is pulled out of both sides (zeroed) and carefully pull it back in keeping tension on both sides as you do to keep it from bunching up.

The crossover look nice and tight, should pull in pretty well. This part is where I always have the toughest time. How far down the rope is your stopper knot?

[NickfromWI]

Blinky is right. The core is bunched up and that splice will never get much deeper than what you have now. Also, and I think this the is part Blinky is talking about- the cover is bunching up, too....or at least it looks like it in the pic.

When I run splices home, I put a fid in the eye, and pull on the fid with one hand, while milking with the other. This keeps tension on the eye while you run the splice home.

Regarding the pull fid, they make a whole world of difference, I think. I rarely find myself using push fids...though it happens sometimes (Beeline and HRC get push fids, for example). The wand excels by GRABBING on to the end of the rope. It allows you to hold on to tinier tails, making it easier to pull the tails through. However, the wand does have $ome limitation$.

When running the splice home, as soon as it gets difficult, stop. Massage the heck out of the rope by bending it at the throat tightly in all directions. When I do it, I make the rope do a full 180 at the throat and I put tension on the little loop I just formed. It gives you more room to work with when you proceed with the burying.

Thank you or the clear picture. It makes it a lot easy for us all to learn with you!

love
nick

[gf beranek]

Boy, I tried what I thought was going to be a simple splice and ended up tossing the works. Couldn't get it in 2 inches. Pain, pain,pain.

Where did I go wrong? Terri just told me it was because I thought I could do it.

Here's what I attempted. I pulled the core out of a NE HI-V and tried to pull the jacket back through. But Not!

I can splice twisted rope blind folded, but I'm lost with the braid. It's a good thing I have friends that can do it for me. Otherwise.....

[NickfromWI]

I got a deal for you, gerry. You film, produce, edit and print up my "splicing for arborists" dvd, then you can have a free copy to use to learn how to do that splice.

Deal?

love
nick

[Wagnaw]

I'm going to try to pull it back out in a bit. ...but umm... I took the stopper knot out because I thought I may be able to gather more slack from the upper part of the rope. So... if you can picture it, I anchored the eye on the other end to a tree infront of my dorm, stretched out all 150ft, and proceeded to milk all 150ft toward the splice.:|: It worked a little. I used two fids to squeeze the rope on either side and run down the rope milking all the way to the splice. It's still stuck about where it was in the picture. :whine: I'm definitely gonna pull it back out and try again, but I'm not sure if I really screwed up by taking that stopped knot out.

[fallguy]

When you get that DVD done I'll take a copy. I have been reading all the posts here and at the Buzz trying to figure out what it is you guys are talking about. The pictures help alot. Like Jerry I can splice 3 strand blind folded. Looking foward to the DVD.

[sotc]

I got a deal for you, gerry. You film, produce, edit and print up my "splicing for arborists" dvd, then you can have a free copy to use to learn how to do that splice.

Deal?

love
nick

free splices for life might do the trick;)

[MasterBlaster]

Ha, no shit!

[NickfromWI]

Gerry, your agent, sotc, has struck a deal. When do we begin filiming?!

love
nick

[NickfromWI]

fallguy, grab some rope, some scissors, and start a thread. There are a lot of folks here that can talk you through a splice.

Wagnaw- you didn't mess anything up by pulling the knot out. It sounds like you didn't move stuff around much anyways. I'd put the knot back in and give it another shot after pulling the splice apart a little.

Good luck pulling it apart!

love
nick

[Blinky]

Yep, I can imagine milk 150' of rope... but I don't have to. I've done the same thing. :roll:

Consider that you aren't actually milking that last part of the splice together, your pulling it in using the core. The problem is friction because the jacket is so packed. You just have to soften it and massage it and eek that last part in bit by bit. Any bumps or loose spots will hang up and make it a lot harder.

[sotc]

Gerry, your agent, sotc, has struck a deal. When do we begin filiming?!

love
nick

:Dha 5 percent off the top:lol:

[NickfromWI]

also wagnaw, did you milk the whole rope before you started to splice the other end?

Willie- 5%? That's off Gerry's cut... His one free DVD. So yeah, that sounds fair to me!

love
nick

[gf beranek]

kibbles and bits

[sotc]

of course as his agent its off his cut;)

[Wagnaw]

also wagnaw, did you milk the whole rope before you started to splice the other end?


Yeah, I did. I was wondering if I took too much slack out before I began the splice, and that there is no more slack in the line. I wanted to try and get it tight so there wouldn't be a bulge milking back and forth as I climb, but I was unsure as to an appropriate amount of slack to leave in the middle. I'd like to splice both ends of my blaze, but again, I really want to nail down the amount of slack, etc.. to leave, so I don't screw up my new rope. I climbed on the PI for almost two years, so it was well worn in.

[NickfromWI]

You did it right. You really want the cover and core properly balanced, just like you said.

love
nick

[Blinky]

Two years on PI... that's gonna be a mother of a splice to finish.

[Hollywood]

Two years on PI... that's gonna be a mother of a splice to finish.

My thoughts exactly... dude, that rope is way too used to put a splice in!

[NickfromWI]

It can be spliced. Let's just say it will be very....rewarding.

love
nick

[Hollywood]

I say it's more like a sore neck!

[No_Bivy]

splice = ass whipping......no pun intended:lol:

[Wagnaw]

I say it's more like... I got it!!!

I had to break out the heavy artillery though. I anchored a 4-to-1 to a tree, attached the eye to the four to one on a carabiner (first a revolver with that little pulley thing in it, then a regular carbiner for when the eye got too small), stretched the rope outand anchored the other end to another tree, and let the fun begin... :evil:

I ran home during lunch, and wrestled with the splice for about an hour before it finally closed up. I would alternate between stretch and milk, slacken and bend/milk, stretch again and milk, etc... I tapped it with a hammer a bit. The cover was just REALLY tight, but it went eventually. It was almost burning my hands through the gloves when I was milking it.

Turned out really nice if I don't say so myself, and after I got home, I just finished whipping it. Here it is....:D

[Skwerl]

Looks great! Next time I bet you stick to splicing new rope, though. :lol:

[brendonv]

Nice,

Sorry to hijack, but do you know anywhere online I can learn to make the whipping like that?

[OTGBOSTON]

very nice!:thumbupold:

[Wagnaw]

I don't really know. Maybe someone else does. You know... it's really funny that you asked cause I'm not sure I remember where I learned it.

The splicing I learned from the sampson double braid directions.

[Skwerl]

Lovey Nick posted instructions a few months ago. They are for whipping an end but also work for whipping an eye splice.
http://picasaweb.google.com/nickaraya/MakingAnEndWhipping

[Blinky]

I'm impressed! I never got my used PI splice finished, just cut it off.

Looks like a Yale Whiplock (http://www.yalecordage.com/html/pdf/yale_whiplock.pdf).

[Wagnaw]

Yup! That's what it is. ...and I have those directions.

[NickfromWI]

Wagnaw, I typically tell people that if you have to resort to pulley systems when burying a splice, you're doing something wrong...but damn! It worked! 8)

You didn't try backing it out and redoing it, did you?

Was it hard to pass the needle through there? It likes like you were just about 2" below the eye where the whipping is. I imagine it was pretty stiff there.

After going through all that work to splice it, I'm sure you'll feel very safe climbing on it!

love
nick

ps- thanks for the great pics!

[Wagnaw]

You didn't try backing it out and redoing it, did you?

I did back it out again to smooth it down more, which I think helped alot. It was also pretty hard to push the needle through where I did, but it worked ok. The whipping wasn't harder than I thought it would be. 8)