Double bit axe handle question

[stehansen]

I have a double bit axe that was in my Dad's shop and is now in my posession and as it is sans a handle I went down to the local hardware store and bought a handle for it. Well, it doesn't fit and it was the only axe handle they had. The hole in the axe is longer than the part of the handle that fits in there is. And the guys down there at the hardware don't know anything about it. On the handle that is on it now the label says 28" CRUISERS DOUBLE BIT OR. This handle is a little short also. My question is, how can I find a handle that will fit it. I have a couple of pictures here. My question was kind of aimed at Burnham as he is kind of a gear expert, but if some of you others have some axe knowledge, bring it on! I don't really have any use for this axe but it is kind of a family "heirloom" now as it may have come from my Grandfather and I want to fix it up.

[sotc]

looks snug to me, turn it upside down and beat on the handle, wedge her up and flip it:D

[stehansen]

Are you serious?:what:

[squisher]

From your pics it's hard to tell how far down in the head of the axe the handle is coming to. It doesn't really look short? Hard to tell maybe?

[sotc]

does the handle flop around? if so take it back, if not id use it

[Al Smith]

Oh they make them. Ames/True Temper/Union shovel of Ames Iowa most likely make the best.

You want to look down that handle and see the grain running parrellel with the axe head .Just like hitting a baseball with the bat,with the grain .No knots,wide growth rings or sap wood .Good old midwestern shagbark hickory .

Actually you might try Bailey's come to think of it .

[stehansen]

No, it doesn't flop around because it is so freaking tight the narrow way. I'm figuring on taking it back but I thought it should fit better than that.

[squisher]

Is there a gap all the way through like Willie asked? Your pic that just sort of looks like the flare of the top of the axehead. Room for expansion when you drive in a wedge.

[stehansen]

Oh they make them. Ames/True Temper/Union shovel of Ames Iowa most likely make the best.

Just like hitting a baseball with the bat,with the grain . .

You're dating yourself Al.

[squisher]

Nice looking axe by the way. Ya know this thread is inspiring me I got a old double bit kicking around here somewhere that was my grandpas that could use some sprucing up. Might just have to get around to that.

[sotc]

i love em for splitting cedar and fir. nothing like a ringing axe

[stehansen]

The gap is on the bottom or the other end of the axe head also.

[squisher]

i love em for splitting cedar and fir.

What? You actually use that stuff for firewood?:P:lol:



I dunno Steve that looks a little severe alright.

[Al Smith]

Definatly not the correct handle .

[Al Smith]

A cruiser isn't worth a hoot as a splitter nor is a splitter worth a plug nickle for a faller .

I've got my dads old cruiser which has never sat outside nor ever had a file used on it,The old man used a stone . He never used to to fall with but he did a lot of limbing and liked a sharp axe and sharp it is still .

[sotc]

try the saw shops to, thatll work loose. yes squishy, i like cedar to start and fir for every thing

[Al Smith]

Oh you guys are in the piney woods hills,no hardwoods to speak of .

I couldn't figure out how the PNW crowd could run long bars on mid sized saws until I cut up a windfall pine for my mom last week. Now I know .

[fishhuntcutwood]

Yeah, I put a handle in my 6 lber a while back, and had tons of slop too, but not as much as what you've got here fore and aft.

[Frans]

I dont really like double bitted axes. One bounced on me once and almost nailed my forehead.

Having said that, I have one and made a leather holder for it.

[sotc]

doesnt that rope get in the way?

[Dave Shepard]

Baileys has a sheath for a double bit, but I don't see any handles. Sheath (http://www.baileysonline.com/search.asp?PageNo=2&SKW=axe&catID=39)


Dave

[Al Smith]

A cruiser has a certain balance that splitters lack .Although they swing better I can't imagine laying into a big oak or worse yet a big coastal redwood with one .Good heavens,that is cruel on unusual punishment .:O

[Frans]

doesnt that rope get in the way?

I had a job where I needed to chop out these Wisteria vines. It was faster to chop them than it was to cut them with a chainsaw.

It worked great and the loop was good for attaching the axe to my saddle.

[sotc]

takes every tool weve got on the truck sometimes :)

[Old Monkey]

Hardware stores don't have much in the way of replacement handles these days. You could do a fiberglass handle. The resin would fill the gaps. Not too traditional but functional.

[Burnham]

Steve, I think what you've heard so far is about right...that handle will never work for that head eye. The only thing you can do is start looking for one that is a better match. Try logger's shops, feed stores, farm supply places.

I've had trouble now and then myself with that, and one time, in a hail mary attempt at finding a decent fit for an heirloom axe head, I went to a local second hand shop. Lo and behold, I bought an old axe there, beat to hell and rusty, but it had the right sized eye and an old but in pretty good shape handle. I extracted the old handle, sanded and oiled it, tossed the crap head in my recycle bucket and put the old handle in the nice old head...voila, and it looked better than a new handle would have anyway. In fact, the quality of the wood in that old handle surpassed anything new I had looked at.

[NickfromWI]

What is the value of having to cutting edges on the same axe?

love
nick

[Burnham]

Two edges give you a couple of options...one way is to use one side for rough work and the other for finer, cleaner cutting, so you keep the finer work edge sharper longer. The other way to go is just use whichever side you pick up, but by having two sharpened edges, they neither dull up as fast as one would.

[NickfromWI]

Cool. Thanks for the explanation. I think if I had a 2-edger, I'd do the first method you're talking about- having one edge the fine cutting blade and the other the rougher, but longer lasting cutting edge.

I don't know if I'd use it much, unless we got invaded by something like :blackknight:

love
nick

[stehansen]

Thanks Burnham and everyone else, I found a handle this morning. It's kind of tight and I chipped out a piece out of the end pounding it in there but it's on. I was worried that I had some oddball axe head that was no longer used by anyone. I took a couple of wacks at a piece of redwood that is laying in the wood pile and it works pretty good. Nick, that guy had better watch out if he ever comes to my house, providing he gives me time to go and get my axe, and that I don't hurt myself swinging it around.

[Burnham]

Steve, did you fix the head tight with a wood wedge and a couple of little steel ones?

[stehansen]

It was so tight on there that I couldn't get the wood wedge to go in. The handle didn't come with any steel wedges so I went to town and got a couple of those and put them in. I think it could use a couple more.

[fallguy]

Steve are there any marking on the head. I have a friend that found a double bit stuck i a pine stump in Minnesota 20 years ago he said the stump was almost rotted to nothing. The head was only lightly rusted. He still has it I am working on a new handle for it since the one on it now is broke from splitting oak. I can not find any markings on it The way it is made I think it was forged by a black smith over 100 years ago. It has a very narrow eye like the one in your picture. I'm using some Hop Horn Beam for the handle.

[Frans]

Holtz makes a good axe

[stehansen]

I checked it, no markings. Could it be possibly not made in China? It has some dents on the outside like it had at least some hand work done on it; however, the hole had some little ridges going with the grain of the wood to make the handle hold better. So I think that is more sophisticated than the run of the mill blacksmith shop, I would think.

[squisher]

You inspired me to go and dig mine out today. It's gotta be cleaned up before any pics though it's rusty :(. It's a True Temper Black Prince.

http://www.yesteryearstools.com/Yesteryears%20Tools/American%20Fork%20&%20Hoe%20Co..html

[stehansen]

Mine needs to be cleaned also. I thought I would hit it with the wire wheel.

[fallguy]

Odds are if it has that kind of structure in side the eye it wasn't made by a black smith. If you can find a handle that is over sized all the way around. Then all you need is a good wood rasp 6 pack of cold Bud and a good Mudro hand rolled cigar.

[stehansen]

I got r done. I wire wheeled it and it still looked kind of bad so I actually found a sander with some sandpaper in it and I hit it with that. It kind of shows all the imperfections in the metal now but what the hay. Battlescars right?

[stehansen]

Steve are there any marking on the head. I have a friend that found a double bit stuck i a pine stump in Minnesota 20 years ago he said the stump was almost rotted to nothing. The head was only lightly rusted. He still has it I am working on a new handle for it since the one on it now is broke from splitting oak. I can not find any markings on it The way it is made I think it was forged by a black smith over 100 years ago. It has a very narrow eye like the one in your picture. I'm using some Hop Horn Beam for the handle.

Is Hop Horn Beam good handle wood?

[Al Smith]

Glad you got it done.

I don't know how things are on the far coast but around here we have antique tractor and engines shows.Usually there is at least one person who has about a zillion handles.Every thing from shovels to axes .Usually cheap too.

[stehansen]

Glad you got it done.

I don't know how things are on the far coast but around here we have antique tractor and engines shows.Usually there is at least one person who has about a zillion handles.Every thing from shovels to axes .Usually cheap too.

Yeah, we have them here also. I actually know a guy that goes to them all the time. He is a collector of the old poppin motors. My next handle project (now that my saw blade has been outed as a drag saw blade) is I have an old horse drawn plow that needs handles. I think they are still widely available. I'm kind of kicking myself in the rear as I bought a place that had a dump rake in the yard, and a barn that had a pretty good size jackson fork in it, and I let both of them get away.

[fallguy]

The other name for it around here is Iron wood. I have had people who's grandfathers where in the Minnesota and Wisconsin woods in the axe and saw days say that it was the prefered wood. Part of that may have been because there was no hickory in the northern part of theses states. It is heavier than hickory and it is very tough. Another wood that was used in the area was Blue Beech.

[stehansen]

The other name for it around here is Iron wood. I have had people who's grandfathers where in the Minnesota and Wisconsin woods in the axe and saw days say that it was the prefered wood. Part of that may have been because there was no hickory in the northern part of theses states. It is heavier than hickory and it is very tough. Another wood that was used in the area was Blue Beech.

I understand that Ash is a good wood for handles also. Something about shock absorbing capabilities.

[fallguy]

I use ash for canoe paddles. It has good flexing capablities. It would make a good handle. It is also easier to work than hickory or iron wood.

[Al Smith]

White ash makes a dandy baseball bat too .

Oh I suppose the handle choice was just what was available .Odds are against many New England axes ever having had hickory handles . I'm pretty sure the stuff doesn't grow there .

[stehansen]

I don't want to fan any flames here but I got a hickory handle. It is really good looking too, except for where I broke part of it off getting it in the axe head.

[Al Smith]

Well,for what it's worth and not to be argumentative I lived in New London Conn. for two years.Never saw the first hickory .Not saying they don't grow in the state though . Newfee lives in Mass . and I think he said he's only seen several in his lifetime .

Then again I never saw a live oak until I was in Sebring Fla .about two years ago .

The handle deal in going back years ago I think was just what was regional .

As far as big hickorys ,I have some of the largest ones I've ever seen in my life.Several are right at 100 foot and 30 inches accross .One of them could make enough handles to supply every one of us with a life time supply.:)

[stehansen]

I think that my bats in high school were made of white ash.

[Al Smith]

I think that my bats in high school were made of white ash. Actually they still are .If I'm not mistaken though in some high school leagues they allow aluminum bats .Unlless things have changed the National and American leagues still mandate the use of the traditional wooden bats ,most of which are made by Louisville slugger in Ky .


Somehing just seems to be missing though when you hear that "bonk" of the baseball being hit by aluminum rather than that nice sharp crack of the ash hitting the horse hide .:)

[Cobleskill]

A major leaque star whose name I forget has hard maple bats custom made. Down the road ash might be rare with EAB on the rampage.

[stehansen]

Actually they still are .If I'm not mistaken though in some high school leagues they allow aluminum bats .Unlless things have changed the National and American leagues still mandate the use of the traditional wooden bats ,most of which are made by Louisville slugger in Ky .


Somehing just seems to be missing though when you hear that "bonk" of the baseball being hit by aluminum rather than that nice sharp crack of the ash hitting the horse hide .:)

The high schools here have been using alunimum bats for a long time, college too. The only ones still using wooden bats are the pros and the local single A team and the wooden bat leagues in the northeast.

[Al Smith]

No matter what type of tool handle it is,wood ,fiberglass whatever it must perform several functions .It must be able to transmit the potential energy to kinetic with a striking tool and also absorb the shock of this transmission of energy .

It's pretty hard to find much of anything that will perform all this much better than good old hard hickory . I know that ash for example will send those reverberations right back at you when the temp is cold .Hornbeam [iron wood ] would weigh a ton and is nearly impossible to work once it dries out .Oak wouldn't work very well ,splinters among other things .Hard maple might . Pecan,being a second cousin to hickory might also work .

[Cobleskill]

The major leaque star that had bats made of hard maple thought he got longer hits with maple.

[stehansen]

The high schools said that the change was economic as aluninum bats never break.

[Cobleskill]

It just doesn't sound right when the bat goes donk unstead of crack.

[TheTreeWiseMen]

I live accross the river from a baseball pitch/field/course/diamond/thingy and here the 'dink' of aluminium (note pronounciation) alot more than the 'thud' of hickory. I thought aluminium bats were not favoured because of the possibility of lightning strikes.

[Skwerl]

If you get struck by lightning while swinging a baseball bat, then that's just God's way of saying "You're not doing it right".
:|:

[stehansen]

Baseball/softball isn't played in inclement weather, so lightning shouldn't be a problem.

[TheTreeWiseMen]

Baseball/softball isn't played in inclement weather, so lightning shouldn't be a problem.

I do sometimes see the crazy local Latino teams playing in dodgy weather. :?

[sotc]

I thought aluminium bats were not favoured because of the possibility of lightning strikes.

i think it was because of ball speed, afraid kids in the infield wouldnt/couldnt react soon enough

[Swe#kipp]

I dont really like double bitted axes. One bounced on me once and almost nailed my forehead.

Having said that, I have one and made a leather holder for it.

Frans is that single bit axe the one that Baileys sells ??

[stehansen]

I do sometimes see the crazy local Latino teams playing in dodgy weather. :?

I forgot about those guys.:)

[Al Smith]

I don't have a clue how they came up with white ash for ball bats but it's just always been that way since I can remember . Oh,by the way ,in high school my favorite stick was a 36" Babe Ruth special ,good bat . Had we been able to use longer I 'd have grabbed another 2 inchs .

[stehansen]

I don't have a clue how they came up with white ash for ball bats but it's just always been that way since I can remember . Oh,by the way ,in high school my favorite stick was a 36" Babe Ruth special ,good bat . Had we been able to use longer I 'd have grabbed another 2 inchs .

I had my best luck with a Carl Yastrzemski.